Tom Winnifrith BearCast July 13: Greece - #Thisisacoup

Comments

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   Jane

   13 July 2015, 03:40

   The eurozone is clearly seen now for what it is, an economic concentration camp from which there is no escape. Yes, debts were run up by Greek businesses and by the corrupt Greek politicians of previous governments. Yes, the governments of Greece have been profligate. Yes, debts ought, in principle, to be repaid………….but by whom? By the Greek people as a whole with the ordinary person in the street picking up the tab for the corruption of the country by big business and previous governments? And should profligate lenders (including German and French banks) not bear some of the losses arising from their business practices and lending failures? As for the attitude of Merkel and Schaeuble, bereft of vision or foresight, they have succeeded in resurrecting the fear (and hatred, perhaps) of Germany in other Europeans. I’m sure that previous German chancellors with some vision and an appreciation of the meaning of history would have acted very differently. There are, I’d expect, so many people like myself, committed to Europe socially and culturally but disillusioned, disgusted and horrified by “this” corrupted version of Europe.

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   DUCK AND DIVE

   13 July 2015, 04:06

   No objection from me to yet another Greek lament on this good-news day. Or do you not think it is good news for the rest of Europe, for our financial institutions, for our stock markets, for our portfolios?

   As much as you may cry into your glass of FIX HELLAS, I don’t think too many here will be saddened by the news.

   In this country, we have been forced to sell off state assets for decades. And now we are forced to reduce state benefits. The Greeks have had it too good and must now join us in the austerity game.

   The statistics don’t indicate a downtrodden or impoverished people. Their tax regime is not dissimilar to ours – except that most Greeks don’t bother to pay up. They live long and healthy lives there. Their average life expectancy is 81 years – longer than in Scotland. Their average age reflects the ever-extending life expectancy – as it does in the UK where the average age is now over 40. The Athens Stock Exchange is a licence to print money since proceeds of share sales are exempt from tax. Also exempt from tax are the proceeds of Greece’s huge ships and shipping industry…Seems shocking to me.

   As for Europe/Germany now policing the measures agreed to, that’s obviously sensible given that Tsipras is as slippery and untrustworthy as they come. The Greeks will get rid of him at the earliest opportunity; but the alternatives are no better. Maybe this fiasco will spawn a new and better political party.

   Meanwhile, isn’t it great that the FTSE is up 7% and heading back to 7000?

   #Thisisarepair

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   Europe Loon

   13 July 2015, 05:03

   The Greeks voted for something they couldn’t have, they voted to reject austerity, get more bailout money and stay in Europe. That just wasn’t a deal that was on the table, and Tsipras despite his disgusting manipulation of the situation knew that he people would prefer being in Europe to not, it would have been easier for him to say sorry I have a mandate from my people and leave, but he didn’t do that because he knew that fundamentally that was not what his people wanted. They voted against austerity, but the entire population made it very obvious that they wanted to stay in Europe and they wanted the next bailout package. Europe like marriage, is a compromise, you have to give yo cant just take and the Greeks have now finally realised that. If the Greeks truly hate the package their representatives in parliament will reject it, I doubt that is going to happen. Also blaming it on politicians is pathetic. Greece is one of the most democratic countries in Europe and they got the governments they voted in, therefore they got the governments they wanted and deserved, and are responsible for what was done in their names. They tried to call the debt odious and they failed every test. They have completely benefited from Europe and up until now they have avoided paying for it. The scam is over welcome to the real world Greece, the one the rest of Europe has been living in yeas.

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   Neil

   13 July 2015, 06:58

   The Greece deal will not lead to a rally in the Euro, but a continuation of its decline. The decline so far has been due to EZ QE and Fed talk of raising USD interest rates. Greece makes the EZ weaker, keeping the value of the Euro cheaper than it otherwise would be, making German exports cheaper for external market thereby increasing the competitiveness of the German economy. Greece leaving the EZ would have resulted in a strengthening of the Euro area and a Euro rally. The EZ is still suffering from terrible economic problems and continued currency weakness is seen as a means to help solve this. Greece staying in allows the Euro decline to continue.

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   Russell O'Callaghan

   14 July 2015, 03:29

   Déjà vu; I’m sure I’ve posted this before but about something else, but..what the hell?! Yous can suffer it again.
   About twenty-five years ago my student son got called in by the bank manager about overspending. I, in my ignorance said something like, “You’re in for it now and about time”.
   Within the hour back he came. “Sorted, Dad.”
   “Eh?”
   “He’s raised my spending limit by three hundred quid”!!!
   My first thought was along the lines of, “But this obvious imbecile is MY bank manager too!”
   The thought is still valid. If someone such as Germany is capable of lending Greece forty-eight billion Euros over a period of the last eight years, and if France is so potty as to do the same with SEVENTY-eight billion Euros, then what possible right do these financial eejits have to start demanding that a whole population now begin an extended period of indentured slavery. Bloody none.
   The whole Euro fiasco, from its inception up until now is THEIR dysfunctional child and they alone should start to man up to this. If you give your kid everything and treat her as though she were Princess Charlotte for fifteen years then how the blazes can you suddenly start waving big sticks at this fifteen year-old wayward teenager that YOU created.
   I’m even more disgusted at all these peripheral nobodies like Slovakia, Romania and Lithuania and such that have spent their entire history until the last decade as total basket-cases now claiming to be paragons of financial virtue that Greece should (no, MUST) follow. This would be that same Greece that gave us EVERYTHING that makes us The West and not some benighted Bongoland. That same Greece that saved us TWICE from becoming The Near-East.
   Yeah, Greece has got to reform. Yeah, it has to pull itself together. But, how would WE have reacted if Germany, bleedin’ GERMANY, had told US this stuff back in 1972? It would have gone down like a holed U-Boot.

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   J P Spaghetti

   14 July 2015, 04:43

   Well said Russell, though the real injustice of protracted slavery wouldn’t be borne by kids who’d been treated like Princess Charlotte for fifteen years, of course, so much as the offspring of kids of their generation who never had it anything like as good.

   Anyway, this talk of the days when bank managers (or – as I recall – their minions) would authorise large(ish) overdrafts for anyone who cared to waft an SU card in their general direction reminds me of how – for what seemed like a very long time in the 90s and 00s – by far (and I do mean by far) the largest contingent of overseas students in the UK seemed to be Greek.This appeared to be the case in just about every higher education institute, irrespective of where in the UK it was located. Not sure why or whether there’s anything to be read into that. That’s just how it was (or, at least, seemed).

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   Daniel Victor

   14 July 2015, 07:07

   Mr Varoufakis must have seen what you said,Tom !