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I am roused by Jeremy Corbyn, Paul Scott, Paul Mason, Russell Brand and a poster here to discuss what is wrong with capitalism, why it is sick and not working. The solution? Stop bastardising it. We need pure capitalism not crony capitalism, run just for the 1%, but to make life better for all.
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Comments
turbograndad
Tom, Great Bearcast, I agree with most of what you say, don’t be too hard on the Mr’s, there’s far worse income disconnects.
However there are some big elephants in the room, of a human nature, ie , we are instinctively cronyistic, society, nationhood, religion, tribe, community, sect, class, trade, party politics, and so on.
Then what it is to be human, first principles, to exploit and to institutionalise.
Capitalism, Ditto above, ruthlessly.
However, these are not abstract esoteric constructs, they are readily identifiable, are we in charge of our own destinies, and have a kind of freewill, of are we slaves to our bad natures.????
Look at history for all of the above, and remedy with a more pure capitalism by all means, but also altruistic, its not beyond the wit of man yet, surely.
Andrew
Totally agree with your analysis I have been saying the same for years but it will only happen after another cataclysmic Labour Government , and hopefully the Lib Dems won’t be there to stop the clean up and we get some entrepreneur MP’s.
Striebs
Great Bearcast Tom .
We now have the situation where normal honest businesses are taking the heat for the slimy banksters crimes .
I had hoped Corbyn would at least manage to ensure that issues which are not discussed are debated but I fear his bubble is about to burst .
One thing Corbyn has in common with the more obvious members of the political class is that he has never done a proper job ; in the public or private sector .
I blame the banksters more than the left for the perception of “profit” as a dirty word .
J P Spaghetti
I’m not sure any society whose head of state inherited everything is capable of running with true capitalism (that’s not a slight on HM and co., I hasten to add, as they had no say in their status – restricting speculation to this life only!). And a sense of decency, for want of a better way of putting it, if nothing else, dictates to me that to have no socialised safety net goes against any notion of civilisation. But by and large, over the course of the past few decades, our system has been neither socialist nor capitalist. It is indeed riddled by cronyism but also sheer absurdity – both moral and economic.
Stories abound of people ending up in a worse position by trying to get off their backsides rather than relying on welfare, and of people who are literally too scared to venture out into the workplace after prolonged periods of unemployment for genuine reasons (severe, incapacitating illness, for instance) because of uncertainty should their new-found work be terminated for a reason genuinely beyond their own control. I don’t doubt that as a result of the current misplaced ‘crackdown’ there are many more young ladies than there’ve been for quite some time leading miserable existences because of realistically unprovable sexual harassment who are too afraid to walk out in case it is deemed they left voluntarily in any reasonable sense. Speaking of which, suppose an unemployed female were to be offered the job of a lap dancer but turned it down. Should she have benefit docked? If not, why not? What about someone who refuses to take a bar job because of temperance persuasions? A pittance to ensure such individuals can eat is not unreasonable (and I believe sustainable, even if not in the form of vouchers). Rather, uncapped housing benefit has been the facilitator of parasitic gain and unsustainable drain on the public coffers for so long (I know you’ve covered that before). Just as the government seemed to be addressing the issue, however, we get the bedroom tax which – although laudable (I do think that) in principle – has resulted in disabled people who need extra space for medical equipment being threatened with homelessness. Are we not in the hands of callous morons?!
And as I’ve commented before, I’m convinced that Iain Duncan Smith may well be the father of Karl Pilkington – I mean just LOOK at them side by side!
As an afterthought, would reversible, mandatory sterilisation of those who’ve brought more than a certain number of children into the world be a bit too Aldous Huxley for a civilised society? I ask that out of genuine concern for children, but feel it would have to be IRRESPECTIVE of the parents’ financial status as people by and large need the same raw materials and space and one’s wealth can change dramatically and unpredictably in a true free market economy.
Daniel Victor
There are two major problems with not bailing out the banks – the depositors and the domino effect.If the depositors are deprived of their money even temporarily,you get serious hardship and a loss of confidence in the banking system – you get a run on the banks that weren’t about to go bust.Assuring depositors that they’ll get their money back eventually certainly won’t cut it.The bondholders aren’t the problem – it’s the banks’ other creditors.
Warun Boofit
We westerners may have the freedom to debate what should be the future of capitalism but the long term outcome will be decided by the Chinese and Indians and some of the Asian nations, I doubt the result will please pseudo socialist nutters like Brand and Corbyn but few of us will be around but maybe our children will be . We see socialism in action every day with the French government completely impotent to even to get two plastic dingys out the harbour so a 50000 ton ferry can get 2000 tired holidaymakers home, no doubt the lefties think this kind of shitty behaviour is ok by their union members.
The only positive for Corbyn when comparing him to Brand is that he has probably never been told to fuck off and go home to cuddle his bank account by the proles he thought would hail the coming of the great one to their lefty demo. Capitalism can never be sorted out to the satisfaction of the 99%, there will always be those that got lucky and bent the rules at the same time. I see nearly every billionaire as having got there by theft or fraud, I cannot think of one example that that deserves his big bank account but then he is probably looking down on me and saying you jealous little twat just know your place. The scene was set in the 1970s and 80s with conglomerates paying fuck all for assets then all within the rules of course selling them off and stealing the pension fund. So what can we do, bring more rules in which the enterprising entrepreneur will find a way around even before the ink is dry, I think we are stuck with extreme wealth and poverty as long as those comfortable in the middle accept their lot nothing will change. Many of our young budding entrepreneurs are destined to become tommorows crony capitalists, its a club just like joining the local labour club somewhere to feel comfortable, but instead of buying each other a pint of bitter they give each other directorships.
dumpling
Great blog although don’t forget the scandal of hidden debt caused by PFIs. Two entrepreneurs I have admired whose views I wish reached a wider audience, are Tim Martin (Wetherspoons) and Michael O’ Leary (Ryanair). I remember the crony capitalism of subsidised airlines both sides of the Atlantic in the 1980s which caused the demise of Freddy Laker. He was the father of cheap air travel for all but crushed by the establishment.
BlueFrew
There should be far more anger about high house prices and all the various help to bailout bank schemes that have been used to keep house prices high.
How can UK workers compete internationally when they all have to pay so much money for shelter? It’s not like shelter is an optional extra either. Many can’t compete, which is why money is taken from people whose labour has value internationally and given to those who have been priced out of the labour market. Let’s start slashing tax credits, housing benefit (landlord benefit) and all the various help to buy money tree schemes. The solution is to bring the cost of living down, not carry on increasing taxes until those that can leave, do.
Unless you’re somebody who is going to downsize then high house prices are awful. The banks have played a blinder though. They seem to have convinced a large chunk of the population to borrow more and more money to buy the same shitty piles of bricks. At some point the realisation will dawn that the amount of money borrowed will never manage to be paid off. So it’s either rent from the bank for life or bankruptcy. That is the price of bailing out the banksters from 2007 onwards.
Paul Scott
Hi Tom,
I’m always interested in your views, so glad you’re doing bearcasts. Although I don’t have to agree with everything you say!
A few quick comebacks;
University education – it seems so unfair that young people today are forced to take on huge debts to get a Degree, when my generation got it all free, and indeed we were even paid to attend – I wasn’t charged any tuition fees, and I got a full grant, which covered most of my living costs, because my father was a retired teacher, so had a relatively low income.
The current system of loans (really a disguised Graduate Tax) introduces a perverse incentive for people to not bother trying to progress in their subsequent career – if they earn below £21k pa then nothing is repayable, and is eventually written off. This can’t be right. So I think current system is a dog’s breakfast.
I would like to see a system of grants for truly talented young people from poorer backgrounds, like we used to have. I can’t agree with your free market approach. Creatve minds are often developed with subjects that you or I might feel are not worthwhile.
More Capitalism? Hmmm, I think we’ve probably got the balance about right already. Taxes are low enough to make entrepreneurs want to do well. Public services have to be paid for somehow. Yes the public sector is appallingly inefficient, so let’s reform it. We have to tweak capitalism to get the balance right between incentivising wealth creators, and creating a decent society which looks after the weak & vulnerable too.
Minimum Wage – you’re completely wrong on this. Govt forcing businesses to raise wages of the lowest paid by 3-4% p.a. between now and 2020 is a fantastic initiative. It is likely to be combined with the gradual withdrawal of so-called Tax Credits, which are an aberration & a huge mistake by Gordon Brown. The taxpayer should NOT be subsidising businesses to pay wages that are not enough for people to live on.
If some marginal businesses are not able to survive when required to pay their staff a living wage, then so be it – they should go bust, and free up market share for better, more successful businesses. Surely you should be in favour of this?
My family own a a minority stake in a small pubs chain. So we groaned when Osborne announced the plans to raise Min Wage. But, we quickly worked out a strategy to cope, and actually we’re enthused by the boost to staff morale that will come from our people looking forward to getting a gradual improvement in their standard of living.
The big missing link is affordable housing. I would like to see the Govt build 2m+ new council houses, so that the poor can get decent quality, affordable housing. With ultra low interest rates, this is the time to be bold, and invest in infrastructure. It’s shameful that recent Govts have ignored this problem, preferring to line the pockets of exploitative private landlords, with the outrageously high Housing Benefit bill. Imagine if instead all that money was spent building lots of new, affordable homes? It would create many new jobs, and make life better for the poor.
Keep up the audiocasts, they’re very good.
Regards, Paul.
Paul Scott
Also, your biggest mistake in this bearcast is to suggest that the banks should have been allowed to go bust. That is madness, as in 2008 we discovered that the entire system was about to collapse unless the main banks were propped up. Lehmans & AIG brought us absolutely to the brink. The system was only saved by the decisive action of Govts (led by ours) to forcibly recapitalise the systemically important banks.
Fractional reserve banking is a shaky edifice, built on confidence that the banks won’t fail. The moment you introduce risk of banks failing, then the system will melt down. So whether we like it or not, the Govt has to stand behind the main banks in times of crisis.
Banks that need State support should, in future, be nationalised in one fell swoop. Wipe out shareholders completely, but don’t let the banks actually fail, or the entire economy will collapse.
J P Spaghetti
BLUEFREW – the term “landlord benefit” more or less nails it, so well done if you coined it (I’ll certainly make use of it rather then housing benefit in future – people can ask what I mean by it if the penny doesn’t drop straight away). I’d honestly not come across it before now.
PS – tertiary education has largely become an exploitative, despicable scam, one facilitated in no small part by integrity-deprived weasels overly keen to ride the gravy train and one which has spawned a whole raft of parasitic industries and activities that have often had deeply damaging effects on local societies. I mean it should all about USEFUL research ultimately – right (and of course we don’t now a priori what will prove to be useful but we don’t need to be silly)? Not about keeping landlords in ambrosia and ‘boosting’ the local economy in such a way as to benefit the relative few those with their snouts in the trough, etc., or massaging unemployment figures. Not sure what the way back would be, though – I’ve observed before that when only 5% of the population got there you weren’t particularly disadvantaged if you didn’t (remember the “degree holders need not apply” advice so often seen in sits vac. ads?) whereas now it seems you need a degree to shovel excrement (don’t get me wrong – a noble profession, I’m sure).
Getting numbers down to sensible levels would almost seem like snatching presents away from kids on Christmas day now (of course it would be discriminatory but it would be meritocratic, so it would be cool-ish)…
PS If I’d been charged tuition fees I don’t think I’d have wilfully ever skipped a lecture as long as there was any assessment by coursework (as there shouldn’t be, of course, for most sensible subjects) as I’d have made sure I got my money’s worth; as it happened I hardly attended any but had fun
dasv
Capitalism + democracy leads to the protection of vested interests – or crony capitalism. How do you root this out? Since humans are inherently greedy, and since money correlates with power, there will never be a level playing field. Capitalism always leads to corruption – Marx’s criticism of capitalism was valid. But Marx’s solution only works for ants and termites, not human beings (because human beings are greedy and corrupt).
dasv
Another way to look at it:-
Marxism: hopelessly idealistic
Paul Mason – Post capitalism: hopelessly idealistic
Corbyn – hopelessly idealistic
More capitalism (no crony capitalism/corruption): hopelessly idealistic
alternatives to current system? Make becoming an MP like jury service: you get chosen at random to do it for a short term. Those in power won’t have time in the post to be corrupted and may not even be the corruptible type. Those that seek office are precisely the people who should not be given office. E.g. Blair.
J P Spaghetti
I suppose Star Trek is a bit Marxist in the sense that personal wealth and currency have become redundant – fair way to go though before we get there…
J P Spaghetti
“Those that seek office are precisely the people who should not be given office. E.g. Blair.”
Billy Connolly fan DASV? So true, in any event.
VINES
uni is the best time of your life so may as well do a media degree and enjoy it. they’re called communications degrees now i think. most employers dont care what you did at uni anyway. me, i did geography which is a halfway house between a pointless one and a useful one
Striebs
BlueFrew ,
You are right that the solution is not to raise wages but to make existing wages go further by reducing the cost of living .
Those of us who export our services are acutely aware that wages in the UK are 3-5X the developing world and that over time will have to come down if we are to be at all competitive .
I’ve had to reduce my rates so that I’m charging less now than 8 years ago and with the strength of the pound may have to reduce them further .
At this rate I may be forced to give up exporting my services and get a job in the domestic economy instead .
How many domestic economy workers like politicians , public servants and members of the professions are even aware that some UK workers wages are limited by what people in other countries are getting ?